France in turbulence: “Anger has come”, but what next?

Financialization and militarization of the economy, the crisis of the Atlantic system and the political crisis in France.

France has been going through a turbulent period politically, economically, and in terms of parliamentary stability. The fact that the country still hasn’t been able to draft a budget for 2025 is quite telling. With massive debt, austerity measures facing backlash from popular movements like the Yellow Vests, and ongoing struggles to form a stable government, the question of where France is headed is a heated debate.

We conducted an interview with Jacques Cheminade, the leader of Solidarity and Progress (Solidarité et Progrès). We asked him about the political and economic reasons behind France’s current turbulence.

The first part of the interview primarily focuses on the economic aspect.

Financialization of the whole Western economies

There is an ongoing parliamentary, governmental or even political impasse in France. What is the reason behind that crisis or instability? How would you name it?

It’s a crisis of the whole system. It’s a debt system and France is a deeply indebted country. Nobody faces the real question. The real question is the crisis of fictitious capital, the financialization of the whole Western economies. Where the money issue prevails over the fate of the people, then it’s a militarization of the economy, which is an opportunity to make money for the oligarchy. This oligarchy is represented by all kind of allies or people that had submitted to its rule. This means the end of the geopolitical world order. This means a new in war in the world and nobody responds to it in France.

We have diverse expressions of the fact that people only dealing with small or relatively small questions in their leaning towards extreme right, extreme left and “extreme center” as called in France. Now the Prime Minister tries to cooperate with certain so-called socialists -which are not socialists, they are, let’s say socialists adapted to the system- not to get the censorship from Marine Le Pen’s party. So it’s a government based on trying to keep this system going with these three political forces. But it cannot last long.

Trapped political scene of France

In fact, the French political scene is trapped in the Western system and Anglo-American system, and nobody wants to face it. So, you have this increasing debt to feed the world economy on the one side and try to keep the population under control. What you have in your hand, as a result, is absolutely instable.

We are at the moment of history where the national issues should be viewed from the standpoint of the whole encompassing system. What was remarkable in the programs in the last legislative of all parties, including the New Popular Front, was that all said that France should continue providing weapons to Ukraine. So, they locate France as a junior partner of the American order. This is what creates is instability. In the depths of the French people there is a clear refusal of that without a real political expression of this refusal.

You said that France has a huge depth. What have been the drivers of that debt? Who gained from that and who lost?

Well, if you look at the percentage of the French debt compared to its GDP, it is less than the United States. The real indebted country is United States, which is 123% of its GDP. For France, it is 110%.

Exorbitant privilege of the dollar

But there is an exorbitant privilege because of the dollar. So, it’s only under this dollar, this indebtedness of the various nations, France in particular, only it could be understood. Particularly France because France tried to keep its social system in education and public health. Now it’s being degraded, but during years and years it has been maintained with debt and the credit was given to what they call enterprise.

But what sort of enterprises? Financial enterprises, and less and less productive sector. So, you have through the depth a submission of France to this speculative financial sector. Each year France has to find about 60 billion of the debt burden plus a rollover of the past depth of about 300 billion. It’s a lot. Why a lot? Not because of the amount of the debt, but because there is no product, no increase in the GDP and in the real productivity of labor. There are no increases in productivity, not even 1% per year. As for the GDP, it would be under 1%. So, with that, you can’t maintain the social systems that France has.

Getting rid of the social system

The extreme centrist of the right wing wants to get rid in a way or another of the social system. That is real debate in France. Are we going on the side of the world financial system and the American international system or on the side of the new global majority in the world so that we can maintain our education and public health system. That’s the question today.

If you look at it from the standpoint of unemployment, it is increasing. Now it’s around 7%, probably soon 9%. But more than anything else, the unemployment of the young people is 23-24%. It’s very high. The youth have the sense that there will be no real future for them. and what is required is a long-term view, a long-term perspective to reestablish hope in the society for the youth. This is the very question, the revolutionary question in the present situation of France.

“German engine” collapses

France ranks the first in terms of debt-GDP ratio in Western Europe. There is a big difference between Italy and France, Germany and France, Britain and France, etc. What was the different path of France compared to the others so that it came to this point of political instability?

The US supported the evolution of Europe in that direction. Germany has been conceived as a center with steal and industry development and so on. The center of this taking over of all other European countries, including France and Italy, has been Germany.

Today, Germany itself is collapsing. Why? Because Inflation Reduction Act and Science and Chips Act want to bring all the production inside the United States and protected by tariffs. In Germany, all of a sudden, a lot of the money and the production flies towards the United States. This is the end of this European system based on “German engine”. France too has been the two references for the development.

We came to the end of this system. Another one is needed. I think if we manage to orient the political will of the people towards a problem corresponding to what it needs, there’s a chance. But for that France has to shift its international policy towards a global majority and the global South. That’s a challenge for me to build a domestic and international policy to getting out of the financial capitalism system. It’s not even a productive capitalist system. It’s a financial capitalist system. It’s a fictitious money. You print money electronically. It creates a discrepancy, which means more and more domination of an oligarchy.

Students of the Polytechnique

50 years ago, there was a possibility of progress for all students in France. Now has absolutely changed. And if you want to reach the highest level, you have to go to private schools. France was the country of the public education, so it shifted to private schools and people try to be in the financially positive side of society by all their means. And this in turn creates in the youth the tendency that so-called the “best and the brightest” to go to commercial and finance schools. Now about 60-70% of the students of the Polytechnique, which was based on research and development of industry and science, go to the banks and the financial economy. The mathematics talents are used to organize financial systems of looting.

“Anger has come”

We would like to ask about the Yellow Vests. This movement couldn’t/didn’t unite around a political and economic program, but still has impacts in France’s politics and society. What do you think it is? And do you foresee a new wave of popular movement, and this be presented in the parliament or on political plane?

In 2009 I wrote a paper called “Anger is coming”. Now I wrote another paper, “Anger has come”. We have faced with the anger here and there, but there is no political program sustaining or responding to this anger of the population.

The Yellow Vests was mainly a middle class revolt against the exclusion from the management of society. It was based on the cost of oil and the lack of public transportation. The Yellow Vests movements said “Enough. We are suffering from the system and it’s unbearable”. So then what Macron did? He threw the police against them and. It was very violent. One person lost his life many were severely wounded, some lost an eye.

Cahiers de Doléances

Since the movement couldn’t get the political expression that they wanted, it has created a state of not depression but leaving the scene of politics and streets. Yet they still retain the will to do something someday and expecting that this day is going to come. There we are. People wrote once gain “Cahiers de Doléances” (list of grievances) which is the same name as the one written during the French Revolution in 1789-1790 where people said what they demanded. Those letters were kept in archives. Now we try to make that tradition lively again.

One important aspects of the Yellow Vests is that people got confident again about their capacities. I think people have been so mocked that they’re doubting about their capacities. They reestablished the confidence and will to act. They are no not really represented in the National Assembly and there is no political movement organized from them.

Yellow Vests and the Global South

There are a lot of people, mostly the locally elected people of the National Front, trying to capture their base or their will. There is a contradiction between the local elected people and the leadership in the National Front. This is also true for the France Unbowed. Normally the majority of the people voting for Marine Le Pen and Jean Luc Melenchon should be represented, but with the destruction of the political scene and the three partition as extreme right, extreme left and extreme center, it is not possible. The majority is expecting that something is going to come from above. No, it must come from themselves, from the people itself. We are trying as a political party to make people understand what was lacking is an international standpoint and how the raising of the Global South of the global majority is for them a chance to be heard inside France. We need to place and connect the demand of the people in France with the shift in the world.

You said the Yellow Vests is the “anger of the middle classes”. Wouldn’t you include the working classes too?

No, it was a craftsman movement. They were parts of small and middle size firms, not working class or part of it. The unemployed sector of the working class also participated. The middle class needs a leadership. So, we are trying to do our best to give birth to a leadership.

The end of the Fifth Republic?

You named the political crisis as the crisis of the fictious capitalist system. Is it also a crisis of the Fifth Republic of France?

Macron is going trying to solve it by doing everything. But the problem is that he does everything wrong. Now he has appointed François Bayrou. In France when the Prime Minister is appointed, it’s the parliament who should vote for confidence. There are all kind of negotiations trying to avoid the no vote of the Socialist Party. The system of the Fifth Republic as De Gaulle said is a system of negotiations, deals, counter-deals and so and so forth. The population is very upset by that. We don’t like it. But as I said before, this reaction of the population has not yet taken a political form.

This crisis could lead Macron to declare the Article 16, which gives him the full authority without consultation or short-term consultation of the parliament. De Gaulle chose that option during the Algerian war to deal with the rebellions of the generals in Nigeria. But it’s clear that the population will not accept it today. I don’t think that Macron will take choose this option.

The other option is to call for referendums on certain issues. The vote in France is in two rounds. The first and two candidates ahead in the first round run in the second round. This is a system of proportional vote. But not none of those can solve the real questions. The reality is that we have a system that hinders the society from participating in the decisions about their own fate.

Elites with diplomas

In the present French society people with diplomas side with the financial system and this is what Macron represents. We have abandoned what could be called the best of the French system following the resistance in the World War 2, which was based on the possibilities for all to reach a position of power in society, not entirely though. That’s why we have a crisis of regime now and far more than the Fifth Republic. It is a question of direct democracy, how you get people’s participation. That’s what the Yellow Vests has been fighting for and it’s still there.

Turning back to the Treaty of Westphalia

Then the other thing is how to deal with this debt system. I was working with friends and political forces that are not in the majority and not prevailing the opposition to organize a moratorium and a cancellation of the in due and odious debt. On that basis we mentioned the Treaty of Westphalia of 1648, which has three things. One, we stop the wars, and we have to cooperate on mutual advantage system, what the Chinese would call a win-win system. Second, we forgive all the evil done to each other. And the third thing which most of the time is not mentioned was the elimination of the depths, war depths.

Today there are, besides the depth of the oligarchy, new war depths to build war industry in all countries. This is an extremely dangerous situation. I’m very worried about that, but I hope that the global majority will impose itself on the international plane. I think it’s Russia and China and then all the countries of the global South, including probably Türkiye. There’s a national prevailing Atatürk spirit in Türkiye over the Muslim Brotherhood opportunism. To get out of this opportunism of the ruling elite with diplomas which has become subservient and servants of the financial oligarchy. And that’s the change we’re going fight for.