In the second part of the interview, Jacques Cheminade, the leader of the Solidarity and Progress (Solidarité et Progrès) answered our questions about militarization in France, the latest situation in Syria and Jean-Marie Le Pen. Cheminade emphasizes that solving France’s problems is tied to cooperation with the “Global South” and the “global majority”, as well as breaking free from dependence on the Anglo-American bloc. He highlights this as the key common point across different regions and areas.
Militarization, dependence and independence
You’ve already touched upon the militarization in France. In fact, that is not only in France, but in many countries in Europe and beyond. We would like to hear your views about the reasons behind that militarization. Is it to “confront Russia” only or is there a broader aspect context?
The militarization of France under De Gaulle and even under Mitterrand was based on France’s national independence. France, different from other West European countries, has its own nuclear power. This is important for dependence. And France has the most advanced transportation and powerful aerospace industry. But these things are from the past. In the present they are no more the driving element of society. The militarization has become a sort of branch of the militarization of the Anglo-American powers.
For example, many parts, particularly parts related to electronic sector and date in the military equipment in France are from the US. So, the US has the control. We must free ourselves from that. We should recover our national sovereignty, and that’s the real issue.
Then don’t you think that this wave of militarization in France doesn’t have an aspect of “confronting Russia” and in an imperialist context?
Sure. Putin has been provoked after his demands of December 2021 for a security system in Europe, but Western powers deployed the forces towards the Russian border. I call that a Cuban Missile crisis in reverse. In the Cuban Missile Crisis, the existence of the US was threatened. Now the existence of Russia is threatened. So, we must take into consideration that factors if we want to reach peace in Europe.
Macron is so connected to, both personally politically, to the system that has brought him to power. He’s a most modernized form of the financial American economy. So at this point, interesting and good thing is that only about 18% of the French like Macron. 61% of the society thinks that if the Bayrou government doesn’t work, Macron himself should leave.
Anglo-Americans and Kurds
How do you see the recent developments in Syria and Türkiye’s involvement?
The Anglo-Americans play with the Kurdish identity to disrupt the whole Middle East for years. Actually, we call it “Southwest Asia” because “Middle East” is an American terminology.
What happened in Syria is in part due to what Netanyahu’s criminal activity has achieved. Israel eliminated Hassan Nasrallah. People in the West don’t know him much, but he was a political figure, but a respected religious figure. Also, Israel continues to threaten Iran. So, in this situation in Syria, the guardians of revolution from Iran and the Hezbollah were not able to defend Bashar al-Assad. Türkiye also didn’t support Bashar al-Assad and Israel, and the US wanted to get rid of him to destroy Syria as a state. So in that sense, there was a certain common interest between Erdoğan and Israel-US. But now it’s finished, because Türkiye has an interest into stabilizing Syria for a development of the whole region, but the US and Israel don’t.
And this is also linked to the fact that I think that the forces in Türkiye who are in favor of joining the BRICS, Shanghai Cooperation Organization, Corporation and European Economic Union. All these forces need a stabilization in the Middle East.
“Republicans” for stabilization
And I think it was a clever movement from the Turkish government to bring PKK’s leader Öcalan to declare that the Kurds must cease from armed warfare. So, there’s a chance of stabilization from that side. But it can happen only if there is a cooperation between the Turkish, Iranian, Chinese and Russian governments. From that standpoint, when I visited Türkiye, I was happy to see that the Vatan Party understands this issue in terms of the new world economic order and the global majority Türkiye’s national interest and the aim of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk should go in that direction. I think that’s the key for the region. I would call it a “Republican Kemalist” conception in Türkiye taking other forms in other countries. This conception has to potential to counter the policies of Anglo-Americans.
Three things to do
The whole question in what we call Southwest Asia can only be solved if three things are done. The first is to publicly recognize that what’s happened in Gaza is a genocide. The second is that the population of Israel has to get rid of Netanyahu and then they could recognize the existence of a Palestinian movement. And the third is what we’re fighting for: a whole development of Southwest Asia, which we call an Oasis plan, with all the countries of the region having an approach of economy of production, the quality of labor and participation of the population to the decisions. Doing all these things we can stabilize this region, which was always seen by the British and then US as a region to control, creating division and taking over the oil production.
I think there is a hope also because the Chinese organized the agreement an agreement between Iran and Saudi Arabia and now, they are making contracts on oil on the basis of yuan.
“Fake opposition” of Le Pen
And lastly, we would like to ask about Jean Marie Le Pen. What is your views about his political ideas and its impact on today’s France?
Jean Marie de Pen is a man from the past. He was used by the Mitterrand government and the socialist forces to create a counterpart, a fake opposition, to keep France in the Atlantic system together.
In the presidential election in 1965, there was an extreme right-wing candidate called Jean-Louis Tixier-Vignancour. He was against De Gaulle. In the second round he asked people to vote for Mitterrand and not for De Gaulle. So, you have the extreme right asking to vote for so-called left candidate. And the head organizer of the election campaign of Tixier-Vignancour was from Jean Marie Le Pen. This is a good case to understand who Le Pen was.
His daughter said “We have a popular movement based on the refusal of immigration. I would do something out of it which is more acceptable for the interests of Anglo-Americans in general and European forces in particular.
So, she abandoned three policies: Being against the European Union, the Euro and NATO. Now she is thought to be more acceptable. Nonetheless, there are forces inside her movement who won’t accept these three things.
On the other side you have Bardella. He is the head in the European Parliament of the group called the Patriots. Bardella is for delivering weapons to Ukraine and he applauded Zelensky when he came to France. So, we have now another fake opposition. Can it change from inside? Who knows, but it requires to tell the voters of Marine Le Pen that they should put pressure for France to be a part of this new coming world of the Global South and the global majority and to work with the BRICS for a new policy against the Anglo-American imperialist forces.